So, what was that about a Christian country?

[matgb]

So, I should celebrate Christmas because it's a Christian festival (wrong) and because Britain is a Christian country? ORLY?

Britain's generally tolerant attitude to religion is underlined by the small proportion who say the country is best described as a Christian one. Only 17% think this. The clear majority, 62%, agree Britain is better described as "a religious country of many faiths".

In fact, following on from earlier discussion, it would appear that I'm in the clear majority:

Most people have no personal faith, the poll shows, with only 33% of those questioned describing themselves as "a religious person". A clear majority, 63%, say that they are not religious - including more than half of those who describe themselves as Christian.

Regarding those who describe themselves as "Christian" but don't believe? Charlie puts it best:

this is more of an ethnic or cultural definition than a spiritual one

So, it's December 23rd, I'm up and about, had a shower and a bit to eat. I'm off to celebrate the True Meaning of Christmas. Shopping. With my family.

So, from the bottom of my heart, this little atheist would like to take this opportunity to wish you all a very genuine Merry Christmas, because the whole thing has nothing to do with that little kid who might have been born about 2000 years ago, during lambing season, at the time of a census. Both of which took place in March.

Comments

[freddiefraggles.livejournal.com]

Ho Ho Ho! Merry Christmas!

[matgb]

Humbug!

Have fun oop north Miss Freddie, if that's possible...

[miss-s-b.livejournal.com]

I don't know, *is* it possible to have fun oop north?

http://snapesbabe.livejournal.com/409442.html

Snap!

(well, apart from the whining about Ian)

[matgb]

Get out of my head you! Actually, no, i's kinda fun.

But yeah, fun is possible up north, always knew tat, it's just that Miss Freddie doesn't tend to...

[miss-s-b.livejournal.com]

Get out of my head you!

Only if you'll get out of mine, which you seem to be resolutely refusing to do... ;)

And yes, I've noticed that Miss Freddie seems to be much less cheerful than usual the last couple of days :( Wonder if there's anything I can do about that...

* plots *

[doccy.livejournal.com]

Bah! You Atheists! Making us Agnostics have to think about religion, rather than just thinking 'Well, there may or may not be a God... But from my life point of view, does it matter? And even if there is a God, do I have to follow some religion to believe in him/her/them/it?'

Merry Christmas matey :) Looking forward to celebrating the True Meaning Of Christmas meself, having a good meal with friends and/or family :)

[matgb]

Well, being agnostic puts you in good company; Dawkins declares himself agnostic, you can't disprove gods, ergo it's just a belief.

Which is weird,a s that's my position, but I believe there to be no gods, so declare atheist. Either way, a lot of humanists are agnostic, it's not an exclusively atheistic club. According to my short course on humanism, the doubt/indecision definition is "less precise", not sure if that's meant to mean wrong or not...

But yeah, have a good one yourselves.

[fearmeforiampink]

I think the difference is that only a relatively small number of people have true 'faith' in atheism. Many people, yourself and myself included, are agnostics who's general guess at what's true is no gods, but who accept that there might well be more in heaven and earth that is dreamt of in their philosophy, Horatio.

I tend to mentally divide it into atheists and Atheists ('god(s) don't/probably don't exist', and 'it is impossible that god(s) exist' respectively), and agnostics and Agnostics ('I don't know if god(s) exist' and 'It is impossible for anyone to know if gods exist')

Under that description, you're probably a little 'a' version of atheist.

[matgb]

OK, so I'm an atheist, but one who believes there is no god, but has that as a tenet of faith that says it can't be proved. I think that's probably the crossover; by your definition, the difference between an atheist and an Agnostic is miniscule, which is why Dawkins and Scalzi are Agnostics but I can't argue with their position as it sounds like mine.

Meh, it matters not in the greater scheme, none of us delude ourselves into thinking some higher power is there to assist us...

BTW, your icon, I've liked it for ages, but I forget where it's from?

[fearmeforiampink]

The 'shooty dog thing' text is from the Doctor Who episode with K9.

The rest is a quote from the song - it's similar to the whole 'chicken soup for the soul', 'it takes X muscles to frown, <X muscles to smile' suchlike. I can't remember who it's by - it's frequently misattributed to Mark Twain, but it's far more recent than that. I actually emailed the BBC quoting related radio show about it, if you want I can check what they told me when I get back to Exeter. The putting the two together was just a result of me having the random idea to do so, as it seemed to scan reasonably well. The pictures are from randon places around the interweb.

[el-staplador.livejournal.com]

Er... enjoy yourself! (I don't think you'd like what I mean by 'Happy Christmas', so I won't wish it you.)

[matgb]

Peace on earth, goodwill to all men? Very basic precept of humanism ;-)

Personally, I always appreciate the sentiment as long as it's well meant; meaning is always inferred, not implied, so I take it as a goodwill gesture even if it's from a frothing evangelical loon. And I think our opinions on that type of Christian are fairly similar, n'est ce pas?

Happy Christmas, and take that as you wish, because I'm also a very committed Liberal, which means I'll tolerate anything if it doesn't hurt me.

[el-staplador.livejournal.com]

Peace and goodwill sounds good. You may certainly have some of that. :-)

[caramel-betty.livejournal.com]

this is more of an ethnic or cultural definition than a spiritual one

My parents (mum and step-dad) are like this. They have zero time for religion at all, but will bizarrely often tick "CofE" on any forms that care about such things. I've no idea why.

[doccy.livejournal.com]

Heh, my parents brought me and my siblings up as CofE... Then, when we were old enough to actually choose (or not choose) religion for ourselves, they practically stopped. My dad's actually stopped, while my mum keeps up with it... mainly because she enjoys singing :D

[el-staplador.livejournal.com]

mainly because she enjoys singing

I suspect that this is one of the main reasons why my family has never defected to the Religious Society of Friends, who don't sing, but with whom we would otherwise have a great affinity. Besides, we're quite fond of the Church of England, in our own way...

[matgb]

It's a habit most people above a certain age seem to have, and although I never quantified it at work, I meant to.

We sometimes got students requesting to stay with either "A christian family" or a family of a particular denomination (ie, there's). So we asked a question along the lines of "if you are a member of a particular faith please tell us so we can match students of the same faith with you". A lot of families said they were CofE. I knew this was bollocks, as I knew a lot of them never went to church (we knew the ones that did for the most part).

So the next year I changed it to "if you regularly attend a place of worship, please state". Number of people ticking that box went right down. My mum says she's Christian, but goes to church for Christmas eve, weddings and funerals.

My father is an agnostic of the Dawkins school, and refused to allow either of us to be Christened, muchto my grandmother's chagrin.

That's also partially it; if you're christened as a kid, you're a member of the faith, even if you don't actually believe. I'm rambling, aren't I. I'll stop.

[susannah-banana.livejournal.com]

Double dare you to come round and have this discussion with my mum! It might distract Katharine for a few minutes:)

seriously though, if you fancy a xmas eve drink, give us a shout.

[matgb]

Have this discussion with your mum? I tend to very carefully step around stuff like that with her, I think we're completely diametrically opposed on virtually all things...

But yeah, possibly, I've no plans tomorrow at all (yet), I'll try to remember to give you a shout tomorrow...

[susannah-banana.livejournal.com]

Don't go to any special effort!:0) we'll be here and we have made the house look all festive. it's much cheerier now bruv has arrived.

[matryx.livejournal.com]

Season's Greetings to you as well :)
I hope you have a relaxing break with your family and a pleasant start to the new year!

[matgb]

I thank you sir. Have a good one yourself, and with any luck I'll be up and see you in the new year...

[(Anonymous)]

Can't wait :)

[matryx.livejournal.com]

er, that was me of course. Stupid LJ logged me out for some reason