Time's up: End of the Wheel

[matgb]

Robert Jordan died yesterday. I'd had him filed under "really must get around to reading" for ages, never quite got around to it. But enough people I know were fans to figure there's something there worth it.

So I guess the questions are: Are the Wheel of Time books good, should I try to read them, how far from completion were they, and will someone else be hired to finish things off?

Comments

[miss-s-b.livejournal.com]

* is such a bad booklover *

I had only vaguely heard the name, never read anything by him. You can all glare at me disapprovingly now.

[matgb]

I only really heard of him when the licence to make a game from the books was granted, licences from books are rare, so it means they're fairly big--a housemate was a fan, but I never got around to reading.

[miss-s-b.livejournal.com]

* feels a bit less guilty knowing that *

[liadnan]

The books sorely needed editing down -around book 9 there were entire volumes (each of which had taken over a year to appear) in which nothing actually happened- and his prose is far from the finest, but nevertheless the sequence had some genuinely imaginative ideas. On balance, I was always rather fond of them.

The book he was working on was intended to be the last in the main sequence (though I have an idea that intention was only arrived at after he knew he was ill). I understand it was fully plotted and strongly suspect someone is lined up to finish it. You might want to wait until that is confirmed before embarking on it.

[nwhyte]

Everyone who knew him is being very kind and sad about it. However, buried in your comments section, I have to say that I found the books much inferior to GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire (having said which, grrm's tribute to him is one of the nicest I've seen). liadnan is completely right about the pacing. I also hated the lousy linguistics; the names are a real dog's breakfast, too many bloody apostrophes!

[matgb]

I do like Ice and Fire, but am finding it a bit overlong now--I saw grrm's post just after I posted this when I switched filter.

I may give them a look at some point I guess, but at the rate I read it's not likely to be soon.

[liadnan]

Oh, I don't think there's any doubt at all that GRRM is far the superior writer.

[caramel-betty.livejournal.com]

I think it was Robert Jordan who meaned to stop way earlier in the series, but had editors throw money at him to write more, hence some of the later books being padded. (I am reporting stuff I've been told - I keep meaning to read some, but other things get to the top of my book pile first.)

Since this seems to be a reasonable place to mention it, I've also recently enjoyed Trudi Canavan's first six books (two trilogies, different stories). The Magician Trilogy was, for my money, better than the Priestess of the White Trilogy. There was at least one plot point I wanted to yell at the characters in the Priestess books (you'll know it if you read it), whereas there wasn't anything quite like that in the Magician books. Both books are interesting, to me, in having prominent female lead characters, when so much fantasy literature is boys or boys+girls because the girls need the boys really.

[matgb]

I've heard many nice things about Canavan, another to add to the list I guess.

[davidnm.livejournal.com]

That's a pity ... I actually quite enjoyed the Wheel of Time. I've got most of them. The only thing that I got tired of in the series were the Aiel (superwarriors can get boring if not handled carefully). Overall I would say the series is definitely worth checking out - there was some genuinely clever stuff in there.

[strangefrontier.livejournal.com]

I was having a conversation about Robert Jordan with a friend just yesterday and was told that the Wheel of Time series is "fantasy-by-numbers schlock badly in need of an editor or three." I trust her opinion and trad fantasy isn't really my cup of tea, but Jordan does have a lot of fans and sales so YMMV.

[raggedhalo.livejournal.com]

I read the first eight WoT books when I was doing my A-levels (not during the actual exams, but you get the picture) and my interest kinda tailed off because I felt like I needed a map or a flowchart to keep track of what the hell was going on.

That said, I did play part of a group of Aiel in a few LRP events for a while, and that was pretty good fun. I'd say they're worth reading, but with a low priority.

[fearmeforiampink]

Yeah, I'd agree with that. They're a good thing to read if you're after something, but they're not something that desperately needs to be added to your pile of "Books I have to read"

[blue-condition.livejournal.com]

I've never read Jordan, but the people I know who've read him compare him to a lot of writers I don't like (Feist, Donaldson etc). His name tends to turn up in connection with the phrase "Extruded Fantasy Product" on t'internet a lot. I doubt I'd enjoy him...

[matgb]

See, that's the thing--some of the people I know say that sort of thing, others rave and rave about it. I guess it's a sort of love/hate thing. I'm thinking put on the list of 'get around to at some point' books...

[blue-condition.livejournal.com]

I guess it depends on your tolerance for very long generic fantasy series. I don't like what I read 20-25ish years ago of Terry Brooks, Raymond E Feist, Stephen Donaldson, Weis & Hickman, Eddings etc. so Jordan is obviously Not For Me.

[(Anonymous)]

To me they belong in the trashy fantasy pile. They're not really all that great, but they're worth reading for entertainment. Perhaps like an action film; you don't read them for deep and meaningful insight, or seamless plot, or clever twists, or deep characters, you read them because they're fairly fun and entertaining. But some series, when I read the latest book (I often read sequels significantly later than the previous books since I tend to pick up books from charity shops), make me want to read the previous ones again and see what I missed; with the wheel of time, I really have no interest in picking up the plot from previous books (too many, too long winded), so I just read the next one and pick it up as I go along.

In summary, worth it, but don't go out of your way :)

[mrsneeze.livejournal.com]

bah, that was me.

[matgb]

So perhaps in the same bracket to a fantasy fan as say Kevin Anderson is for SciFi, workmanlike epics with ideas but not brilliance.

I may try one at some point I guess.

[tyrell.livejournal.com]

Books 1-5 are very good indeed. Not "Song of Ice and Fire" good, but then I think that particularly series is in the running for "No 1 on the shelves today", but still a strong contender for top 3. The setting (and the sects/factions in it) has huge potential.

I was hooked and loving it from 1-3. 4 was duller, 5 was great, six okay, I have up during 7.

8 onwards appear to be several thousand pages in which absolutely nothing happens.

I'd say definitely get them cheap or from a library, the first few are very good fun. They're not the most intellectual, but fantasy fun with a really strong mythos. He's definitely a big name, and fan pressure will ensure that the series gets finished :)

[tyrell.livejournal.com]

Argh, typo monster. "Particular", and "I gave up during 7".

[theweaselking.livejournal.com]

The last couple were getting progressively better, again - after one book (9? 10?) where they spend a thousand pages on *two in-world days* and of those thousand maybe 250 involved any of the main characters at all, the writing started speeding up again and things started actually happening again.

At this point, I'm in it mostly through inertia: the first books were Perfectly Acceptable Fantasy, some of the ones in the middle were quite good, and while the later ones are bad, I still wanted to see what happened.

[tyrell.livejournal.com]

I’d say the early ones were better than “perfectly acceptable” – the Aes Sedai were done very interestingly, with the different colours not being equally represented or opinionated, the Aiel were lots of fun, the lead character is pleasingly insane and dangerous... I had very high hopes after the first couple of volumes.

Might have to dip back into them to find out what happens in the end, IF they finish it off...

Someone started up a dictionary of the Old Tongue somewhere online, there’s a somewhat formidable task.

“Sene sovya caba'donde ain dovienya!”
“…Okay mate, whatever you say.”

[springhazsprung.livejournal.com]

You are kidding me. I have been thinking over the last couple of months how much I want to buy and re-read the series so I can catch up on the latest few books.. but now.. what's the point if the series has no conclusion?

Wow, this thread seriously seems to be slating the books. Maybe I'm alone in saying I absolutely loved them. Sure, they were FAR too long, and the names were so stupid/similar that I was using the glossary at the back non-stop, but they were really amazing when I read them. Granted, I started reading these in year 7/8 (making me 12-13 years old)..back when I used to have time to read a lot. I got as far as finishing book 9..which means I missed the latest two books, I think. I was going to re-read book 9 to lead onto book 10... but the series was so complicated and it was several years ago, that I thought it might be better to start again from the beginning.. >____<

I don't think I have anywhere near the time to read the books now anyway. But I'd really recommend them to you, if you haven't read them.

[big-blue-bear.livejournal.com]

I rate the Wheel of Time highly, I'd go so far as to say they are my favourite books.

As for finishing the series, Wilson (RJ's cousin) has said many times that all the notes for the final book are there.

Chances are Harriet (RJ's wife), who has edited his work for many years and is an accomplished author herself, along with Wilson, will complete the saga.

[springhazsprung.livejournal.com]

Aah, that's good to know. I'll probably delay re-reading them until/if that last book is published..otherwise it could be years and I'll forget it all again.

But yes, even though it's been ages, they've always been one of my favourite series of books too..

The Quality of the books

[wunderworks.livejournal.com]

If you want to enjoy the books read up through books six or seven and then quit. They get horrid after that...heck, after book four or five they start getting bad.

His allegories are obvious, his naming pedestrian and his plots either elementary or so convoluted that he had to have 'solved' them himself in the following book. He creates about ten-fifteen 'good' characters and ten-fifteen 'bad' characters that are really worth following, but after that he should have had his editor chop his hands off. The man is WORSE than George R.R. Martin in those regards and Martin's characters to a man (except Tyrion) drove me nuts.

If you want a good long read that is satisfying and enlightening read something like Musashi, or pick up Patrick O'Brian's Master and Commander series of books (yes, the ones the movie is based off of).

[matgb]

If it allays your concerns a little, might be worth observing that one of the above comments is from a semi-professional book reviewer, and another from someone a lot more hard-SF snobby than I am (which is impressive).

Not bad things, but if I were to look at people on my f-list I'd expect not to like the books, we have them here front and centre. Like I said, I don't know much about them other than some like, some really don't. I plan to at least try some of the early stuff though.

Like Beef said, the ending was plotted apparently, and he knew he wasn't going to be able to finish himself, so for those that really need the ending, it's there.

(and you'll be back at Uni before you really know it, trust me, time'll fly—I moved to London 8 months ago now, that's scary, seems like only yesterday)

[big-blue-bear.livejournal.com]

His idea was to finish editing and writing end of 2008 for release early 2009.

It probably will take a little longer now, so don't expect it to come out for 18 months.