Macs vs Linux Vs Windows: A Cultured mailing list

[matgb]

Awhileback, after liadnan posted a link, I joined The Culture List, an Iain M. Banks discussion list. Thing is, like many mailing list, it's been going for years. Many many years The regular members know each other (and many have LJs *waves*), and the original topic has been done to death. Nowadays it appears to be almost comlpetely off topic rambling. For the last three or four days, it's been, almost exclusively, a Mac vs all comers flame war. It got a little boring very quickly, but, well, 130+emails later, it seems to be dying off. However, in the dying embers, Josh posted this, which amused; I missed it the first time around, bot someone else picked up on it, so went back and found it:

> Maybe we should just have it out with longswords on the field of glory?
>
> Every OS manufacturer for themselves.

Microsoft's champion would show up with an unwieldy French pole-arm, with
little bits tacked on and a sort of hinged thing and a flail stuck on the
side for no obvious reason, and would injure himself accidentally while
trying to even find the target because his helmet wouldn't open eyeholes
without verifying it with the user every time he wanted to look at
something.

The Apple warrior would be wearing gleaming mithril chainmail and weilding a
slim and elegant rapier that would look really amazing but be unable to
pierce the heavy welded steel plate worn by the Windows guy.

The Linux fighter would show up in a surplus Russian tank dating back to the
Cold War with a retrofitted nuclear reactor for power, pictures of penguins
stencilled on the turret, and controls even he couldn't understand. He'd end
up driving backwards into a ditch and spend the rest of the battle designing
but never quite getting around to implementing a complex XML-based tank
retrieval and repair system.

Sounds about right. What is it about Mac fanatics that they just won't shut up? I rarely encounter any Windows fanboying; it's not "Windows is great", it's more a "Windows might suck, but it's what we have to work with". Some Mac users just don't seem to get it.

Ah well. Good mailing list, even if it is a lot of noise. Don't know how I'd handle it if I wasn't using Gmail's conversation view at times though; the joys of filters...

Comments

[foxfirefey]

I've met Windows fanboys. Ain't pretty.

[matgb]

Really? Were they, I'm guessing, a little freaky?

Because I just can't see being a fan of an OS that simply doesn't just work to be a sign of sanity.

I use it, doesn't mean I think it's actually good, it's just the best option I've got, currently.

[foxfirefey]

I dunno, they were really pushing some .Net solution for web development. And then they started talking about C# and how it was soooo much better than Java. Me, of course, I don't know much about either of those platforms, just because I don't really tend to work with Windows stuff, and honestly, I'd rather not if I can avoid it. So I don't say anything, because what the hell do I know?

But the part that wasn't pretty was when he was saying all that stuff about C#, then looked up in surprise because I wasn't trying to rebut or anything, and started talking about, Haha, why didn't that get a rise out of you? Aren't you some kind of Java zealot?

And I'm sitting there blinking, blinkety blink blink, because I don't think I've ever said anything really zealotty about Java.

I mean, honestly, because I know enough to know Java is sort of like an embarrassing language for geeks, I guess, but I can code in it, and make a GUI across three platforms, so that's what I've written my biggest projects in. Because they wanted a GUI across three platforms, y'know? And that's just how I knew to do it. I don't think I ever went around crowing about it, though, and here was this guy trying to bait me so he could brag about MS stuff. Or something. Maybe he was just playing geek games? Hell if I know.

[jackthomas.livejournal.com]

It's not my fault Mac's are awesome.

[matgb]

Well, y'see, it's fine believing that. But perpetuating a flame war for now over 200 emails just basically repeating that assertion and batting away any inconvenient facts that get in the way?

Grah! But I acknowledge they may have thier uses; I thought about getting a minimac once, and a former colleagues actual Mac was cool. But I can't afford to switch, and have years of PC files that I like. I look forward to a decent Linux install I can dual boot though, that'd be cool.

[mapp.livejournal.com]

My favourite bit of Mac-zealotry has come with the revelation that people who use iTunes shouldn't upgrade to Windows Vista because of compatibility issues. I've read the views of several Mac-zealots decrying this is yet another problem caused by Microsoft, when it is really down to laziness on the part of Apple.

If you can say "my product is not compatible with this operating system which has been made available for developers for around a year" and have people point the blame at the developers of the operating system, you've got a dangerously loyal customer base.

[matgb]

Well, I have much sympathy with the "don't upgrade to Vista" argument, and TBH as long as it's not too extreme anything that adds to that one is possibly useful.

But yeah, sounds a bit daft. OTOH, Vista is so full of DRM &c that maybe Apple can't make it compatible, competing DRMs are a bit annoying anyway.

[tiredstars.livejournal.com]

ITunes is generally reckoned to be a horrific program to run under windows XP anyway. Apple have no excuse for that other than the fact their product is optimised for Macs and they've done a shoddy job porting it.

On another subject, the Linux bit reminds me of this.

[matgb]

I was working on the principle it was crap when I DLd QuickTime, it took a bit of sniffing to find a version that didn't have iTunes bundled. (and now I've got QT I have autoplay issues that I didn't have before :-( )

I'm thinking Apple, like any other company with proprietorial needs, thinks of the bottom line first, the image second and the actual product a distant third. Can't blame them for it, but I do tend to stick to OS stuff when I can.

[mapp.livejournal.com]

Meh; Steve Jobs says "we'll get rid of DRM if we could get away with it" and I, like some other folks, are pulling out the BS card.

iTunes doesn't make Apple much money. iPods make Apple a lot of money. If they got rid of the DRM on iTunes purchased music, they'd sell less iPods (because then you could play your iTunes downloaded songs on, say, superior MP3 player) and make less money. Sorry, but Apple benefit from the DRM system, and I put absolutely zero stock in the idea that Apple would like to get rid of it.

[matgb]

Ah, that's all politics anyway. Apple've been threatened under anti-trust vendor lock in stuff by the EU, so he's manouvering to blame Big Media, which in the case of record companies is mostly EU owned anyway, a classic case of 'not me guvnor'.

Estimates show that over 90% of the stuff on the avarage iPod is ripped anyway. They're going for the 'cool' vote, and a LOT of people have got the bloody things. Not me, obviously, but I'm thinking of buying, well, a Creative. Or possibly a phone/player, which would make more sense to me.

[sobelle.livejournal.com]

wandered over... somehow...?... probably via marcus or martin? ... but seriously, I find the Mac rant annoying (even tho I presently use an iBookG4... because I thought I should learn another OS and old dogs should try to learn new tricks) otherwise, William is just his usual charming (not) self and I really thought the list was a much nicer, i.e. more entertaining place before his arrival... mostly I just ignore him... anti vaughn

[matgb]

It's the first time I've really noticed him as being actually annoying, I guess I now know to file under ignore because overall it's pretty good.

[pshtaku.livejournal.com]

Saw this... and thought of you...
In fact I thought this was behind your lj cut.

[matgb]

Tht's just, well, weird. Cool, but weird. Eyethanu.