If you are lunatic enough to consider running Vista

[matgb]

Then you might want to consider installing it on an Apple...
PC World - In Pictures: The Most Notable Notebooks of 2007:

The fastest Windows Vista notebook we've tested this year is a Mac. Try that again: The fastest Windows Vista notebook we've tested this year--or for that matter, ever--is a Mac. Not a Dell, not a Toshiba, not even an Alienware. The $2419 (plus the price of a copy of Windows Vista, of course) MacBook Pro's PC WorldBench 6 Beta 2 score of 88 beats Gateway's E-265M by a single point, but the MacBook's score is far more impressive simply because Apple couldn't care less whether you run Windows.

Being of the couldn't really care less brigade within the ongoing Holy War between Mac fanatics and the rest of the world (yes, there are Windows fanboys, I understand them even less, at least Mac fanboys have an excuse), well, that's just weird. A machine not designed in any way for the latest M$ release outperforms the best of the best of those that were?

I'm sure that there's some weird alterno-verse where this makes sense. And in this world, the only person I've ever killfiled in Gmail is probably worshipped as a deity of some kind.

Comments

[mapp.livejournal.com]

Meh, my experience with Windows Vista so far seems to suggest that it's actually pretty poor when it comes to getting the most out of hardware.

"A machine not designed in any way..."

I didn't think that any of the IBM PC-clones are designed with running a particular operating system in mind. It's the job of the operating system to use the hardware available.

[caramel-betty.livejournal.com]

I didn't think that any of the IBM PC-clones are designed with running a particular operating system in mind. It's the job of the operating system to use the hardware available.

Sort of. At the level of it being a cheap typewriter that gets email and plays Patience, most of the vendors don't care much - although they usually will use hardware that works with Windows, whether or not it works with Linux or other OSes. Similarly, the business market will often just want something light and portable.

However, there is a fairly strong market for top-end machines. Some of the better manufacturers here will consider things like:

- which graphics card manufacturer has best DirectX performance (thus, on Windows)
- which GCM has best OpenGL performance, with Windows drivers
- whether any particular combinations of hardware are annoying for whatever reason (most Windows OSes have had particular clashes they don't like).

It can get into the realms of insane pedantry when they start selecting a particular chip for a particular role. At one point, the insane high-end gamer rigs all used AMD Athlons (and friends) instead of Pentium IVs, because tests showed that on all the popular games of the type, Pentium IVs underperformed, point for point. Conversely, the reason that the Pentium IVs underperformed for games meant that they could fly through media tasks (DVD ripping, say) with considerable alacrity. Celerons were usually pants, so the same companies started looking at other options for the gamers who wanted a lot of muscle for not a lot of money and hit on... the Pentium-M. Yep, the laptop processor was found to be better at games for the budget obsessive gamer than others, so motherboards were built and procured using it in a desktop machine.

Similar things happen for some of the business machines - picking the machine with the fastest hard drive throughput (rather than largest space) for graphics work or database work, say, or arguments over which type of RAM is fastest.

So up to a point, they don't care about the OS, they care about the performance that they can sell to the obsesssive end market. But since the end market is typically using Windows, they have to care about performance under Windows.

[matgb]

You see all this? This is stuff I probably ought to know, but don't. And it's very good basic knowledge, so thanks.

[matgb]

Apart from what C_B said, you're right really, but they advertise them as such, so they ought to work well with it.

I do know that a bunch of people really don't want to upgrade, and a lot of Vendors are keeping XP going a lot longer than planned, Vista really hasn't worked out well for M$.

[eccles.livejournal.com]

To suggest that those windows boxes were "designed for Vista" seems a bit odd when it appears all this "designing" involved putting a sticker on the front.

[matgb]

Well, yeah, but that's how they're being marketed. False marketing is a bad thing, generally, and to find that a Mac is just better across the board is just, well, bad.

Heh—I even checked my trash folder to find out if a certain troll of our mutual acquaintance had posted it Listwards, I'm surprised he hasn't.

[susanne-est-moi.livejournal.com]

I love my MacBook Pro more than just about anything in the world.

[paulatpingu.livejournal.com]

Basically what it goes to show is that most pre-built machines might offer good specs, but skip on things that matter but don't sound sexy.

Low RPM Disc Drives, High Latency RAM, poor BUS controllers, all add up to a slower machine, even if the 'top of the range, designed for Vista' sticker is stuck on the front.

Apple seemingly take a bit more care in their products since they are unlikely to be physically upgraded - they need to work very well out of the box, so no, it doesn't really surprise me that their hardware is best out of a bunch of pre-built machines.

Although there were some tests around last year that suggested that XP ran better through virtualization on Macs and Linux boxes than it did native on PCs, so maybe you don't even need to install Vista for a Mac to be better at it...

[matgb]

Weird, guess that's why OEM still has a fairly big market—really ought to look into getting y next box built rather than bought, or just upgrading this one piecemeal.

Theoretically I'm getting a much better Thinkpad this week. In practice, the new motherboard for it is still in transit :-(

[purplecthulhu.livejournal.com]

I suspect this says something about the quality of device drivers as well as, as someone else notes, paying attention to the whole design rather than just headline grabbing items like the processor speed and GPU. Since Apple uses a relatively small range of hardware in their systems they can get the drivers, written by themselves, right for the hardware.

Looking at the vast range of different machines and different model numbers from someone like Sony, it's a wonder they can get anything to work properly (actually, from what I've seen, they don't...).

[matgb]

Aye—the vast range of slightly different models does get to me a bit—part of my job last quarter was for Lenovo, and the Thinkpad range is huge, with such variety of slightly different spec machines, yes, the market needs it, but even so...

[purplecthulhu.livejournal.com]

Does the market need it? Apple seems to sell pretty well in most markets on a rather more limited range. The expense of supporting so many models must eat into the bottom line - or lead to poorer customer relations (which, from what I've seen, would seem to be Sony's approach).

[matgb]

PC market seems to—people want stuff for different purposes, I tend to need a portable but capable laptop, others will need media work (my main colleague for example), others want gaming specs, etc.

A basic shell is fine if you tweak it to suit the user, as long as you do it well. Given y complete lack of knowledge when I went in, Lenovo/IBM seem to have managed this well, their rep seems to stand by that, not done any feedback work for Sony though.

Macs tended to be used for more specific purposes until recently—media file handling was a default, but a lot of PC users will rarely if ever need to do much in that way

[purplecthulhu.livejournal.com]

The more people with iPods and digitised movies (torrent, rips, downloads) there are the more will be using media files. Thing is, a media capable laptop will also likely be good at gaming and other things, and the Vista benchmarks would tend to support this.

I got into Macs through Unix not media. I suspect this is true for a lot of scientist-academics.

[matgb]

Oh, agreed—but for business use (which is what a lot of PC laptops are sold for), edia files are rarely relevent, at least from the purchasing perspective. I don't care how fast I can rip a CD, or look at a large image in photoshop.

I do care how fast it takes me to do a database update or load a document—different tasks, needing, from caramel_betty's comment above, different chipsets.

Macs use the top of the range across the board, but Macs cost, I want to save money, so I'll get a machine that's good at what I need it to be good for—my boss gets different machines for me and Ludo, Ludo does our design work, I do our database work, it's cheaper to get a machine good for each task than one good for both.

[eldar.livejournal.com]

Great! Though I'm not sure what A. will think when she discovers I've removed her shiny new Leopard and installed Vista over it....

[matgb]

Well, there's only one way to find out ;-)

[eldar.livejournal.com]

I'm not wasting any money on Vista!

[burkesworks.livejournal.com]

Running Windows Vista on a MacBook is like booking a table at Le Manoir Aux Quat' Saisons and then asking Raymond Blanc to run you up some beans on toast.

[matgb]

Well, yes—but one suspects they'd be damn fine beans on bloody good toast.

One thing I'm pretty sure on, not switching to Vista, it'll be some flavour of 'nix when XP finally gives up on me.

[pashazade.livejournal.com]

And in this world, the only person I've ever killfiled in Gmail is probably worshipped as a deity of some kind.

I have the most peculiar image in my head. It involves a tropical island and ritual dance...

[matgb]

That was an image I didn't need to have shared. Not that I know what he looks like, but even so, ewww.

[miss-s-b.livejournal.com]

Linux Linux Linux?

[matgb]

Given we've both said no to Vista, I reckon some flavour of 'nix has to happen.

Heh, it may even be possible to install OSX on a PC at some point soon...

[miss-s-b.livejournal.com]

Given that you're technically my fiancé, who are you referring to with the icon, I wonder? ;)

And yes, I think exploring the wondrous Vistas of Unix together will be lovely :D

[matgb]

Good point—your boyfriend might not be stupid...

And yeah. Bad Puns R Us.

[miss-s-b.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't know who this boyfriend chap is, but my fiance is brilliantly brainy, and sexy and gorgeous.

* smooch *

[misscoollinda.livejournal.com]

Would mac fans even dare to install vista on their computers? I must confess that I did have to install virtual PC on my ibook in order to be able to work from home.

[matgb]

I doubt it, no, because why use Windows when you can have a perfectly good Unix system? But as a proof of concept, it does show that Macs are good.

Although arguably it shows they're overspecced, I know not.